[OccupySheffield] OccupySheffield Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13

Wed Feb 8 14:47:58 GMT 2012

I'm sure everyone has done what they thought was best for the occupy movement. I think the problem is the form of democracy used at occupy.  leaders naturally develop in any society the problem is how do we stop them from running away with the power. Accountability and democracy are the answer.  I feel that the form of democracy used at occupy is unaccountable leaders develop and there is no way of holding them accountable for their actions.  You cannot de-select them as leaders because you deny there is any leaders which there clearly is.  I like sitting round in circle debating the hand signals are fine and useful but I strongly believe the need to recognise that leaders will develop in the field that they are most skilled in  and how we ensure those leaders are accountable to everyone is the key question. 
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-----Original Message-----
From: occupysheffield-request at email-lists.org
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:38:04 
To: <occupysheffield at email-lists.org>
Reply-To: occupysheffield at email-lists.org
Subject: OccupySheffield Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [OccupySheffieldPrivate]  public GAs (Leela Simms)
   2. Re: public GAs (Joe)
   3. Re: [OccupySheffieldPrivate]  public GAs (Mick Ibbotson)
   4. Re: Occupy Sheffield - Process Working Group	update (Joe)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:08:18 +0000 (GMT)
From: Leela Simms <leela.simms at yahoo.co.uk>
To: Chris <chrisc at indymedia.org.uk>,	"occupysheffield at email-lists.org"
	<occupysheffield at email-lists.org>
Subject: Re: [OccupySheffield] [OccupySheffieldPrivate]  public GAs
Message-ID:
	<1328710098.14226.YahooMailNeo at web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hear, Hear? -? or is it?? Here, Here

________________________________
 From: Chris <chrisc at indymedia.org.uk>
To: occupysheffield at email-lists.org 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012, 13:54
Subject: Re: [OccupySheffieldPrivate] [OccupySheffield] public GAs

Hi

On Wed 08-Feb-2012 at 01:05:37PM -0000,
barriers2bridges at virginmedia.com wrote:
> 
> Power-craving people, who take it on themselves to make
> unilateral decisions (SUCH AS NICOLE) i.e. making the
> decision to hand over the citadel to Circus without
> group consensus, are just perpetuating negative energy,
> 'LACK OF TRANSPARENCY' and self-serving clique elitism!

Please don't send personal attacks to this list.

All the best

Chris

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:09:24 +0000
From: Joe <joe at occupysheffield.org.uk>
To: Chris <chrisc at indymedia.org.uk>
Cc: occupysheffield at email-lists.org
Subject: Re: [OccupySheffield] public GAs
Message-ID:
	<CAA5U2-9bVsozRUnbF6bNTtZi7A0kfskAR7HoOX4suhqjFviRSw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Agree with Chris. Lots of factually incorrect information here. Please
discuss at a General Assembly.

Solidarity,

Joe

On 8 February 2012 13:54, Chris <chrisc at indymedia.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi
>
> On Wed 08-Feb-2012 at 01:05:37PM -0000,
> barriers2bridges at virginmedia.com wrote:
> >
> > Power-craving people, who take it on themselves to make
> > unilateral decisions (SUCH AS NICOLE) i.e. making the
> > decision to hand over the citadel to Circus without
> > group consensus, are just perpetuating negative energy,
> > 'LACK OF TRANSPARENCY' and self-serving clique elitism!
>
> Please don't send personal attacks to this list.
>
> All the best
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> OccupySheffield mailing list
> OccupySheffield at email-lists.org
> https://www.email-lists.org/mailman/listinfo/occupysheffield
>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:35:28 -0000
From: "Mick Ibbotson" <zapatista2010 at googlemail.com>
To: <occupysheffield at email-lists.org>
Subject: Re: [OccupySheffield] [OccupySheffieldPrivate]  public GAs
Message-ID: <E183FC98F19D4FD1B6E73F1F6126B322 at ibbotsonPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dawn,

I don't think that was called for - there may be differences of opinion within the group - thats what society is about - people do what they think is best for the group and to suggest otherwise is not helpful, not productive, and not needed. It needs discussing at GA if you believe there's an issue - personally I think that the tension of the situation facing Occupy on two fronts currently is beginning to show in people's reactions to stuff (mine included)

We need to be rational, re-realise we are on the same side and move forward.

Mick

http://lookinluckout.blogspot.com/
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:37:48 +0000
From: Joe <joe at occupysheffield.org.uk>
To: Mick Ibbotson <zapatista2010 at googlemail.com>
Cc: occupysheffield at email-lists.org
Subject: Re: [OccupySheffield] Occupy Sheffield - Process Working
	Group	update
Message-ID:
	<CAA5U2-_J-M_r=7xJeco-18vy0AkZsEEjYb2hzpbuu9D37hcjkQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

No way is it pointless! There was General Assembly consensus a couple of
weeks ago that the camp was stretched for resources at certain times of
day, and should be planning for eviction/moving forward, as the High Court
Case approaches. Just because the Cathedral is prepared to violently evict
a peaceful protest doesn't mean that's the end of the movement in
Sheffield. There will always be General Assemblies in public space even if
the tents are gone. The Citadel of Hope is a resource that Occupy are
likely to be able to share for a while yet, and new temporary occupations
could spring up at any moment on new sites, right?

I would have thought it was critical to get Process and communication
running smoothly as we take on February.

The Citadel situation went through court last month. The owner has right of
possession from the 21st February, so can can legally take the building
from then if anyone was still there. This has been public knowledge since
the court day.

Snowy regards,

Joe

On 8 February 2012 13:57, Mick Ibbotson <zapatista2010 at googlemail.com>wrote:

> **
> Joe,
>
> Is this a bit pointless now the camp is leaving on saturday (radio
> sheffield)? Also its been suggested that Occupy have given the Citadel back
> - or are going to - elsewhere. Can someone actually confirm what is going
> on, as this whispers to the media is not helpful.
>
> Mick
>
> http://lookinluckout.blogspot.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Joe <joe at occupysheffield.org.uk>
> *To:* Occupy Sheffield <info at occupysheffield.org.uk> ; Occupy Sheffield<occupysheffield at email-lists.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:05 AM
> *Subject:* [OccupySheffield] Occupy Sheffield - Process Working Group
> update
>
>
> Morning all,
>
> The first Process Working Group meeting of 2012 happened yesterday at
> Occupy Sheffield. The Process group looks at communication and information
> sharing, and at how meetings operate so that every voice can be heard, and
> so that all the important topics get discussed. It also looks at the role
> of facilitators in meetings, and how proposals by General Assemblies get
> acted on. If you're interested in this kind of thing, get in touch.
>
> The Process section on the wiki has also been updated, and minutes from
> the meeting have been added:
>
> https://occupywiki.org.uk/wiki/Sheffield/Process
>
> Lots of discussion and a few good ideas too. The Working Group will be
> feeding back a bit at tonight's General Assembly from 6:30pm too.
>
> New whiteboards have been added to the occupation camp and the Citadel of
> Hope. These can be used to record proposals and consensus decisions on a
> rolling basis, so if you miss a General Assembly or two you should be able
> to walk in and find out what's been going on over the past few days. The
> whiteboards should also be used to record items for the next meeting's
> agenda: things that the group ran out of time for in a previous assembly,
> or new issues that Occupy Sheffield might discuss.
>
> Onward!
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
>
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